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tv   FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX News  October 23, 2011 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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ned by closed captioning services, inc. >> chris: i'm chris wallace. all u.s. troops will be out of iraq by year's end. and oo >> dramatic changes in the middle east landscape offer both opportunity and challenge for u.s. foreign policy. we will talk with secretary of state hillary clinton and republican senator lindsay graham. a new phase in the 2012 republican convention race. with debates on hold for now the candidates get down to real campaigning. we continue our one-on-one interviews with congresswoman michelle brachman. the romney perry match up gets physical. we will tell how it shapes up the battle for the gop
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nomination all right now on fox news live. hello again from fox news in washington. on friday president obama announced he will keep a campaign promise and bring all u.s. troops ohome from iraq by the end of the year. earlier we spoke with secretary of state hillary clinton in uzbekistan about iraq and the death of ousted libyan leader moammar qaddafi. >> secretary clinton the u.s. commander in iraq general lloyd a austin wanted upwards of 55,000 troops in iraq last year. they talked about 3-5,000. why is president obama pulling all of our troops out? oo evening we should put this into the appropriate historical context. president obama said combat troops would leigh by the e-- leave by the end of the year. before that the bush administration committed to
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withdrawing all troops by the end of this year. we have a bipartisan commitment to withdraw combat troops. it was viewed as appropriate given the development of the iraqi security forces. we always made clear we were open to discussions with iraqis if they wanted some kind of continuing presence and what we have agreed to is a support and training commission similar to what we have in countries from jordan to columbia and we will be working with iraqis. we will have a very robust diplomatic presence and we will fulfill what are the requests that iraqis have made to us. >> if it were the general order of business, why was your state department negotiating with the malki government until a few weeks ago to keep thousands of troops there. >> this was an ongoing discussion. it started several years ago. it kept going and at the end of the day as in many discussions and negotiations, an agreement
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was reached that met the needs of both sides. the president has fulfilled the commitment he made to the american people. we have also under the president's leadership fulfilled the commitment requested by iraqis. iraqi is a sovereign independent nation with whom we have good relations and we expect to have a continuing strong secretary layings ship for many years to come. >> a wide range say i rack keys are not yet ready to handle the possibility of sectarian or experience from iran. he said this after the announcement of the fallout that they would secure an orderly transition in iraq. they have not necessarily put at risk than those with the blood and sacrifice of thousands of american men and women. how do you respond to that? >> first of all we are all moved
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and grateful for the sacrifices of our men and women those who lost their lives those grievously injured and they will never be forgotten and what they did should be honored in our country's history forever. the point of our involvement in iraq stated over and over again by people on both sides of the aisle was to create the opportunity for iraqis to have their own future without the oppression of a dictator like sadam hussein. you can't on the one hand say you are all for democracy and sovereignty and independence where people get to make their own chases and on the other hand say when a choice is made that is fore seen by our own government going back to the bush administration and validated the obama administration and the current government in iraq that that somehow is not appropriate.
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that is what we were there for to give the iraqi people the chance to make their own decisions. we have a security presence xe with a support and training mission in iraq. we have bases in the region with other countries. that's what you do when you are dealing with independent sovereign nations that have a will and a decision of their own. >> secretary, let's turn if we can to libya the human rights groups are calling for an investigation if as an appearance from the videotape that qaddafi was executed it is a war crime you are coming under fire for what you said. >> we came, we saw, he died. >> question, do you regret what you said, secretary and if i may do you regret what you said and do you feel qaddafi was wronged or he got what was coming to him? >> let's have an investigation.
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i fully support the united nations investigation and i fully support the transitional national council's own call for independent investigation. i supported it on the merits because it's important to find the facts and i support it as part of what will be a challenging transition process. the transitional national council today is going to declare the liberation of libya. they are then going to announce a new government. they need to make it clear it will be a government to unify the country to speak reconciliation to make everyone who supported a former regime as long as they don't have blood on their hands feel safe and included in a new libya. from my perspective i think such an investigation would be very important to establish accountability rule of law and pave the way for the inclusive democratic future that the libyans tell me they want.
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>> do you regret what you said? >> i am not going to comment on that. we didn't even know what was happening at that time because it was an unconfirmed report. >> i have to also ask you about the man who was convicted for pan app-am 103. you talk about the rule of law. would you like to see him return to a scottish prison? >> absolutely. i don't believe he should have been released in the fest place. i have raised with the highest national council and i will raise again as soon as they have a government. the united states very strong feelings this man should be returned to prison. that is the only appropriate outcome of what was in my view a miscarriage of justice when he was released. >> we have a couple minutes left. i would like to do a lienting ground quick questions quick answers. you were in pakistan while you were there you confirmed the fact u.s. officials met with the terror network in august. do we want to kill them or do we
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want to talk to them? >> we are pursuing both. we have a policy of site, talk and build. we had a meeting at the request of the pakistanis to gauge whether there was any basis for further talking. certainly the attack on our em bee and border pass is a strong answer to the contrary. you don't make peace with your friends. we know that from long experience. what we are trying to do is gauge who among these groups would be sincere and serious about pursuing an afghan led peace process and it is very absolutely understood in order for any process to have a chance to succeed united states and pakistan have to work with afghanistan. we responded to a pakistani
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request. we are testing out a lot of different approaches. but we are going to keep fighting the guys who are fighting and killing afghans, americans and others. >> finally the president has deployed 100 special forces to central africa to fight the lord's resistance army which is ki has killed and displaced so many over the decades. why intervene in uganda and libya but not in syria. what's the foreign policy principal at work there? >> first let me say, chris, that what we have seen from president obama over the last 2 and a half years and injury markbly wi-- i remarkably in the past 6 months his kind of smart led deer ship in a complex world is paying off. he is the one that brought bin laden down. he was the one who put together a coalition that eventually removed qaddafi.
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i think it's important in this very complex, dangerous world we have somebody in the white house who understands that america has to lead. our leadership is essential. but we have to look at every situation and make the right decision. so the two is that you mentioned, one that we are not fighting in uganda. we are sending support advising intelligent resources to try to rid africa of this surge of the lord's resistance army. it was welcomed the ugandans and others. in syria we are strongly supporting change from at-battiasad and opposition that only engages in peaceful demonstration. you do not have from that opposition as you had in libya a call for any kind of outside interventions. quite uncertain and challenging times is the kind of leadership that not only america but the world is looking for. >> secretary clinton we have to
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leaf it there. thank you for talking to us. safe travels. >> thank you so much chris. good to talk to you about uzbekistan. >> joining us now for more on all of this a leading republican voice on national security senator lindsay graham. welcome back to fox news sunday. i want to start with the big point that secretary clinton made at the very end of the interview that the president exhibited smart leader ship the kind they have been looking for. >> i think in the last year he has made bad foreign policy decisions at the strategic level. when it many coulds to iraq when the military commander who i trust says you need 15,000 to 18,000 to support the gains we fought for and you have zero, it is disappointing. israel has been thrown under the busby thi bus by this pres.
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i would argue that iraq and afghanistan is being run out of chicago, not, washington, in terms of decisions. >> chris: what about the argument that in the last six months bin laden is gone, awlaki is gone and now qaddafi is gone. >> well done, mr. president, using the drones in yemen and pastan. well done, mr. president. not be take close the deal in iraq is a serious mistake. celebrating leaving with no troops behind is a serious mistake. panetta said on a scale of one to ten -- >> chris: the defense secretary. >> ashton carter said it was a 10. when it comes to afghanistan he rejected the military advice given. there was never an option on the table to pull out the surge forces out. he compromised the fighting season and mate general allen's
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job so much harder. put in question our success in afghanistan and ended iraq poorly. fumbled the wall inside of the 10. i hope i'm wrong about what happens in iraq but they are dancing in the streets in tehran. >> chris: let me take secretary clinton's argument. she points out rightly it was president bush back in 2008 who negotiated the status of forces agreement which called for all u.s. troops to be out by the end of 201 and i 2011 and it wr the iraqis didn't want us there any longer. >> it was not clear. >> why did he put in the poison pill there could be no legal immunity for our troops? >> every political leader are i met with including prime minister al-maliki suggested they would do it. the iraqis have no air force. they have no intelligence gathering capability. they need counter terrorism
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assistance. there are missions that only we can to. the iraqis were in my view open minded to this. this was a failure by the obama administration to close the deal. the military commander said we needed 15 to 18,000. we have none. so that is the bottom line here. at a time when we need troops in iraq to secure the place against intervention by iran and the bad actors in the region we are going to go into 2012 with none. it was his job, the obama administration's job to end this well. they failed. >> chris: let's turn to libya. you were a loud critic of the obama administration decision to work within nato and as one white house official put it so unfortunately to lead from behind. the obama white house is pointing out now toppled qaddafi without the lost of a single american soldier and it cost about a billion dollars as opposed to the $805 billion in
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iraq. was the president right and critics like yourself wrong? >> if i hear a republican nominee for president embracing leading from behind they will have a very difficult time in south carolina. it was right to take qaddafi down. the president deserves credit for being involved in the know fly zone initially. he deserves criticism issuesle for waiting so long. qaddafi was on the ropes and we let him off the ropes. thank godded for strong women i said at the time. >> chris: meaning the fact that hillary clinton -- >> yes, pushed the president. so at the end of the day he came into the game after qaddafi reemerged and started killing by the thousands his own people. but this whole period of time where he was left unattended, the war lasted longer, more libyans got killed and here is the big mistake by leading from behind. when you take american air power off the table nato is a much weaker force and the thousands of missiles
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compromised and the chemical weapons broken into and the libyan that has to be dealt with is all a result of being left on longer. >> chris: what do you make by the push buy human rights organizations to have an investigation of the death of qaddafi as a possible war crime? >> i'm for the rule of law even for the worst among us. and when you want to talk about foreign policy security decisions let's have an investigation but let's give our american forces a jail they can use in the war on terror. he failed to close gitmo. president obama said he would close gitmo. we are not closing gitmo and he is not using gitmo. we don't have a place to put a prisoner. if we caught a high value target tomorrow where would we put them? we no longer allow the cia to
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interrogate them. let's investigate what happened to qaddafi but let's have a detention policy to protect americans. let's stop reading terrorists their miranda rights. this this president for the last year and a half has made some very poor national security decisions that i'm afraid will come back to haunt this country. i hope i'm wrong. >> chris: how do you answer the other question i asked secretary clinton about the distinction, putting troops or military intervention in africa, not troops on the grounds but air strikes and doing nothing in syria. she says we have to be smart and take it on a case-by-case basis. >> the world community is a bit divided about syria. i support putting people in africa. that is where this war is headed, africa. and this idea about sanctions working. if iran gets a nuclear weapon where they are headed it will be the biggest change in our national security environment in my lifetime and this administration is blowing it when it comes to iran.
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they are not being strong enough when it comes to syria. israel has been thrown under the bus. the iranians feel emboldened. they are going to have a shot at iraq they would not have otherwise. ifle throw the world into eyas. and obama's policies when it comes to iran has not been working and they have not been bold enough when it comes to soaria. >> chris: when you sat down and i hope i'm not talking out of school you said you always have to think of what your audience is and you said your audience today is the 2012 republican candidates. what is your message that you want to give? >> these decisions matter. i want the troops to come home. god knows they fought well in iraq and the president is right that they come home with their head held up high. i want to end it well. what happens in iraq now is going to be much more difficult in terms of the iraqi people being successful. iran is the biggest winner of
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this. i want our presidential candidates to talk about foreign policy. what would you do with gitmo. use it. let the cia interrogate prisoners. what would you do in afghanistan. pull ought the troops out by september of next year, compromising the second fighting season. what would you do with iran if they tried to kill an ambassador here and u.s. soil? what is your policy on stopping the iranians from getting nuclear weapons. at the end of the day these decisions that president obama is making i think are strategically unsound and our people need to step up and challenge him. we have a jobs problem and a national security problem growing by the day. >> chris: when you say they need to step up, do you think they have failed to do so, so far? >> they have not done it robust enough. iran with a nuclear weapon, a -- iraqi now being compromised, afghanistan being compromised, our best friend in israel feeling they can't trust us, all of these issues are worth more discussion on our
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side and president obama i would praise him if i thought he was right. if he had left 10,000 to 15,000 troops in iraq i would have defended him. if he had given general allen the chance to finish the job in afghanistan and not short the fighting season for political reasons i would have stood by him. i tried to help him close gitmo but we can't and we should use it. to the republican party national security matters step up on it. >> chris: senator graham a hot dose of strong coffee this morning. thank you for are coming. >> thank you.
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>> chris: with the long string
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of republican debates now on a break, candidates are focusing on campaigning in key early states. we continue our series of 2012 one on one interviews with congress woman michele bachmann who is making her big push in iowa. and that is where we find her today. congress woman, you were sharply critical of president obama's announcement friday that he is pulling all u.s. troops out of iraq. you said he should go back to the negotiating table, sit down again with the malicki government. to do what? >> well, president obama's team says that they got what they wanted in iraq, chris. they got absolutely nothing. they got their hats handed to them. here weed a extended over $800 billion. worse we have expended over 4400 american lives and we have nothing to show for it. we have essentially been kicked out of iraq by the people that we extended our blood and our press and toil to liberate. we don't have any troops left.
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interesting any time that we ejected a dictate ernie where in the world we left troops behind. after iraq we will have more troops left in honduras than we have in iraq. what is more dangerous is the fact that iran is waiting in the wings. they are looking to have a dominant influence in iraq and this won't be good going forward. >> chris: as secretary clinton said, i hope you heard it at the beginning of the programs one of the reasons we did what we did in iraq was to try to create a sovereign country and the maed licki regime seems to have decided they wanted us out. >> i heard what the secretary of state said a tha genie time the united states has done this historically we have always left troops behind to secure the peace. this hasn't happened. this was done at the insistence of iraq. they did not want an american
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presence. it is clear to all why they don't want an american presence because iran doesn't want an american presence. if america is there they can puput up resistance to iran. this way if america is gone there's no resistance and iran will have a clear hand and clear field. their dominance and their influence in iraq that won't be good in the region and this will continue to allow them more in that area and that's very dangerous. >> congresswoman, from the very start you were a strong opponent of any u.s. military involvement in libya. here's what you told me. >> this is a disaster in the making. that's why president obama's policy of leading from behind is an outrage. people should be outraged at the foolishness of the president's decision. >> question, if president bachmann was in charge would
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omar qaddafi still be in power? >> i think it was wrong for the united states to go into libya. barack obama said we were going into libya for humanitarian purposes. it wasn't humanitarian purposes it was regime change. what is the result? we don't know who the next leaders will be. sure there's a transitional council but who will it be if they take over. it could be elements affiliated with al qaeda. we don't know who the regime will be. worst we have seen them go missing and the shoulder fired rockets that are dangerous that can fit into the trunk of a car and there's some reports that they may have perhaps gone as far as gaza. that could be used to bring down a commercial airliner. this is a very bad decision and it's created more instability in that region not less. >> i am a little bit confused,
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though. are you suggesting we would be better off with qaddafi's dictatorship still in effect? >> the world certainly is better off abo-- without qaddafi. i agree with lindsay graham but consider what the cost will be. we are only looking at a snapshot today. the last chapter hasn't been written in on libya. again we have to recognize they are missing today chemical weapons the shoulder fired missile launchers. this is very serious. this could risk more human life because they are missing and we also don't know who the next regime will be that will be taking over libya. we knew who the devil was that was running we don't know the next one. again this was leading from behind on the part of the administration and remember there was no clearly identifiable american vital interest that was ever designated. that needs to be our basis for putting any american in harm's
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way. >> chris: one of the big issues in the republican race now seems to be major tax reform herman cain has his 999 plan. rick perry is going to unveil his blat or flatter tax this week. as a former tax lawyer what is your tax reform plan? i need you to be brief. >> my plan is found at michelle bachmann.com. it is called real jobs right now. i gave a major economic speech at the commonwealth club. my plan takes a page out of ronald reagan's blue print the economic miracle that was raut in the 1980s. when you flatten taxes and simplify taxes that creates growth. i am a pro growther. as a former federal tax lawyer what i want to do is abolish the united states tax code and have very flat tax rates that are very simple that are the same for all americans and for businesses across the united states, too. so mine is a very simple, very
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fair flat tax that abolishes the current tax code. >> according to the polls herman cain has taken a lot of your support among tea partyyers and social conservatives. i want to ask you about the comments that mr. cain made on abortion. let's take a look. >> it ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or that mother has to make. not me as president. not some politician, not a bureaucrat. it gets down to that family. whatever they decide, they decide. >> herman cain now says that abortions, all abortions should be illegal, but it's the family's choice whether or not to break the law. does that get him off the hook? >> that will be for the voter to decide. but i think it has been very troubling because in the last few weeks we have seen this happen time and time again where there is statements. this is an issue you can't get wrong.
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the president of the united states can't get the abortion issue wrong the life issue wrong. president obama's decision is that he is personally against abortion but he doesn't believe the government should intervene to protect human life. that's essentially what herman cain said in his responses. he also came out and said he was against protecting marriage between a man and a woman and then he later came out and said he misspoke and said he is for it. then we also know he gave an interview with will splits zer when he said he would be open to negotiating with the tariffs in guantanamo bay which includes the master manned of 911 includes sheik mohammed. you can't have all of these flip flops in our nominee one after another and it is making the voter's heads spin. it is giving people pause and they are asking real questions about what does he believe truly and how would he govern as president of the united states. and i can tell you here in iowa people want to make sure our nominee is 100 percent pro-life,
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100 percent standing for marriage between a man and a woman and we certainly don't want to see terrorists like khalid sheik mohammed released from kwguantanamo bay. that is nonnegotiable. one of the items coming out lately. >> i want to ask you one final question a couple of paid staffers in new hampshire quit this week. one of the reasons they said is except for a debate about ten-days ago in new hampshire, you havendn't been in the state since june. which raises the issue, aren't you in effect all in in iowa? don't you have to win in iowa or you are gone? >> well, we are replacing the staff that we have in new hampshire. we had a great week this last week and we are focused on iowa. we spent a great deal of time in new hampshire prior to that and also in south carolina and we are here in iowa. we are he is focused in iowa. we are grateful for it. i won the iowa straw poll.
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we have a great deal of enthusiasm and support in iowa. we are conducting town hall meetings. we are getting to new shafrp hir and south carolina as frequently as we can. we also recognize the process. january 3rd is now the date. they are number one. we are focusing on the very first state that will have a voice on the 2012 election. that's iowa. that's why i am here today. >> congresswoman brachman thank you for spending time with us. see you out on the campaign trail. >> look forward to it, thanks, chris. >> chris: up next a big week overseas. when we come back our sunday group tackles how the u.s. role will change in iraq and libya. itotion at red lobster. there's so ny choices. the guests love it. [ male announcer ] it's endless hrimp today at red lobster. amuch as you like ny way you like, like new sweet and spicy shrimp, all for $15.99. my name is angela trapp, and i sea food differently.
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and the most 4g lte coverage for your business. all on america's fastest, most reliable 4g network. no wonder more businesses choose verizon wireless than any other wireless carrier. verizon. the united states is moving forward from a position of strength. the long war in iraq will come to an end by the end of this >> the war in iraq will come to an end by the end of this year. the transition in afghanistan moving forward and troops are finally coming home. >> preside>> chris: president o touting what he called a string of successes in american foreign policy. it's time for our sunday group
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brit hume fox news senior political analyst, david druker from the role call newspaper kimberly stross el of the wall street journal and fox news political analyst juan williams. we have heard a lot of differing arguments today what do you make about the president's announcement he is pulling troops out of iraq in the next year? >> it is more of a statement of relief than it was a victory. political progress has been made in iraq. >> i think that we are not going to know how well this all turned out and how successful it will be for the obama administration for a few years until we see how
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the iraqi government transitions how it does defending itself p and iran's influence in iraq. if iran ends up as a major player you could say diplomatic failure. it is interesting listening to secretary clinton how much she said this was a validation as well as a bush administration strategy. obama has no problem aligning himself with former presidents. >> it gives them bipartisan cover in this particular case. i was struck she acted as if it was just a natural order of things when it was a couple weeks ago her state department was negotiating to try to keep thousands of troops in under pressure from shiite andal sadr. they wanted the u.s. out they viewed it as an occupation. >> we are talking about the united states of america and
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leader of the free world. malki fundamentally wanted the united states there longer. they didn't want the united states out but they could have made this happen if they wanted to. the way the president announced it it sounded it was more of an interest in the political outcome of this. the president said i will fulfill a campaign promise congress can say we have money to spend on other things and everyone is happy. after world war ii why are we leaving so preemptively.
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seems to me 4500 americans have died. seems to me 100,000 iraqis have died. it is time for us to pull out. the question is and this is what we are hearing this morning is what comes next. i am not sure thattal m al-malid iranians are such great friends. obviously you have a shiite dominated south and there's interference there but there's complexity beginning with saudi arabia's iran and tins fascination. i think that somehow saying directly there is a link between iran going to dominate iraq is mistaken. >> let's turn to libya. not only the ouster of the regime but qaddafi. does the leading from behind look smarter? >> it looks better today than it did. my own view is, i think there's
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a good argument to be made that if we intervened more forcibly sooner than we did with oair power his government and he might have been dumped, toppled very early in the game when he was on very shaky ground and the decision to handle it the way the administration handled it prolonged the bloodshed and prolonged the suffering and gave us this ultimatum. this is the single most important fact of this that the guy is gone and why the president will have some ground to stand on when he claims it as a victory. >> david, the obama administration never fails to point out and legitimately show one we did this without the loss of a single american life who was if it was cheap put it that way which cost a billion dollars which is around the pentagon and it has a look of an organic libyan effort rather than the u.s. toppling another regime.
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>> given our economic environment and given the fact that we are in afghanistan in iraq there wasn't another way to do this but with a lightfoot print. it was a matter of style if it had not gone well the leading from behind factor is an issue. americans have a problem but above everything else they prioritize. thenneded up at least so far and it works out. >> you look like you are knitting your brow. >> i wonder what what cost. this should have been a no brarn. this man qaddafi killed more civilians in the world other than osama bin laden. he was an international terrorist. when this came about this potentially could have been over in weeks at a great savings of loss of life in libya at least. instead they were himming and howing. it begs the question about america and its use of power in
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the world. invited a lot of backlash from congress which we had to deal with here. i am not necessarily sure it was a big victory. >> in the end it was clearly a victory. united states eliminated -- >> it could have been better. >> if united states had put troops in? >> no if we led from the front. we had to be traged into this-- dragged into this by the europeans. >> the president was slow to say they are going to put american troops on the ground. there was no political support for that in the united states. this wou there would have been a consequence of putting them on the ground given we had a presence in iraq and afghanistan. i think that he was able to manage this in the best way possible. the question is, and i think you are exactly right expose major flaws in terms of nato. it was the u.s. intelligence and ultimately u.s. military arm amount that carried the day for the rebels.
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they were engaged in another war. i think it was done in such a way as to not harm our presence in the middle east. >> it is not clear the concept of leading from behind is a policy or whether it was just a practice it was applied in this case. you have to ask the question, when it comes to syria are we leading from behind are we leading at all similarly with iran. it doesn't appear that the effort to keep iran from getting a nuclear weapon is succeeding except by virtue of their own technical stumbles and whatever efforts are being made to mess their computer stimss ystems up their arms system their nuclear program. i think there's a lot to be seen. >> we are out of time. let me ask you real quickly, britt, you hear all of the stuff we should have an investigation, war crimes the killing of qaddafi, are you offended by the way qaddafi ended? >> looks like they captured him
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and killed him. it isn't pretty. i don't think the world will mourn him very long. fodder for the far left and various corridors. if there's an investigation, so what. >> we have to take a break here. when we come back the de late shows the republican field isn't afraid to mix it up. now the candidates look to hit the campaign trail hard. 2012 politics next. 2012 politics, next. @?ñ [ husband ] you ready for this?
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i don't think that i have ever hired an illegal in my life and so i'm looking forward >> i don't think i have ever hired an illegal in my life. i am looking forward to your facts on that. >> i am speaking.
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>> i am speaking. >> the unforgettable moment this week when presidential candidate mitt romney and rick perry went toe-to-toe. >> let's go with a look at the latest clear politics average of recent polls to see where the field stands now. herman cain mitt romney far ahead of the field. followed by rick perry a distant third and the rest of the candidates in single digits. there are several questions. you can take any of them if you want. can cain stay on top? can perry bounce back and can any of those other candidates break out? >> i think it's quite remarkable cain has stayed where he has for more than 10-days a couple of weeks especially because he's getting hammered on all sides of these questions on foreign policy abortion became a big issue this week. he's hot in the sunlight. he is right in the middle of the sun right now. we will see in the next couple weeks. the big question is romney especially now that you are
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having perry come out with this flat tax plan this week there will be a lot of enthusiasm about that about livening it up on he can necclesiastehe can ec. he will have to pick up his game some if he wants to compete in this realm. >> juan, your over view. >> i think the ads that were run by the campaigns were quite interesting in that you suddenly see that if romney really perceived perry despite what you saw on the poll numbers perry as his primary rival he doesn't take things seriously. everybody in the romney campaign expects cain will go away and it will be about the book tour and speaking fees. perry has money and has a message and he's strong and commanding. what you saw in the debate is evidence that romney fears
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perry. that's the alternative. romney has more money and looks like he has a clear path to the nomination. >> let's talk as michelle brachman said in the interview he has two gaps this week. he suggested to cnn he would consider trading all of the prisoners at guantanamo for another in israel. he also said government shouldn't be telling families what to do on abortion it's their choice. how much damage has been done? >> i think serious damage has been done. for professional politicians we see in this cycle in the congressional election, in the end when you are running for president it is not an advantage to be without long experience. herman cain's lack of experience
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is what is leading to the stumbles and miss steps and mistakes. the abortion blunder was kind of inexplicab inexplicable. trying to -- it doesn't walk it back when you say it ought to be the person's choice but oh yeah it is also illegal. i suspect herman cain may have peaked and may begin to decline. on one other point there's a lot of people who think this debate with romney and perry, perry took more. he took a cheap shot on romney. >> what he said was romney hired an illegal. he thought it was a company he hired. which unknown to him hired illegals. he told him to stop it they said they would when they didn't do that and more legals got hired he fired the company. that is something no smart
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politician would make an issue of. when he kept trying to interrupt romney when he was explaining that made perry look bad, too. he made a double blunder on that. he came out of it worse. >> he said i can't hire illegal immigrants i am running for president. >> that wasn't the most artful way of putting it. his explanation it seems to me holds up. >> we have begun to see the cracks in remember man cane. he is getting the attention you get as a top tier candidate. he changed up his 999. it's not as simple as he said it was. it is easy to attack it in an ad. he can say you didn't do the math right check with your team and my team. analysis group isn't independent. they don't have time for all of this. >> you see what happens when you
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have an undisciplined candidate. when you have limited campaign experience or you are in the spotlight of running for president this is what can happen. the reason he hasn't attacked him is he hasn't had to. it is caking care of the problem. if he has a threat it's perry and the 15 million and the friendly persona if you get him away from the debate. >> let's tell a dirty little secret we, because we don't want it to be obama romney for the next year want to see a republican raised and i get the sense you are suggesting that there is going to be an effort whether on his part or our part to resuscitate rick perry. >> we are not the only ones who don't want an obama romney. they want to make it go on as long as they can and have the other republicans in the field
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damage as much as they can. >> do you think perry can salvage his campaign? he was up 38 percent of the polls when he first got in. he's now as we just showed a distant third at 13 percent. >> it has been a huge plummet. the legacy of herman cain wherever he goes they have seen what his merits are. he inspired a lot of primary voters out there. we are going to see rick perry announce his flat tax. it doesn't have the drawbacks herman cain's have. it has a little bit of a history. steve forbes did this. he will have ready made defenses and arguments for it. he will go and try to claw back riding off of her main cane's promise. >> is mitt romney a real conservative? all of the flip flops we hear from perry.
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what we hear from herman cain he is not leading in the clear average he's leading in iowa he's leading around the country. it is amazing. they think he's an authentic genuine person and a real conservative. >> we will see how the polls change after this week. thank you panel. see you next week. don't forget to check out panel plus where we pick up with the discussion on our web site fox news sunday.com. we will post the video before noon eastern time. up next we hear from you. easte. up next, we hear f [ inner voice ] establish connection. give me voice control. applications up. check my email and text messages. hands in position. airbags. ten of 'em. perfect. add blind spot monitor. 43 mpg, nice. dependability. yeah. activate dog. a bigger dog. [ male announcer ] introducing the reinvented 2012 toyota camry. it's ready. are you? ♪
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>> chris: ti >> time for comments you posted to our blog wallace watch. many wrote about the continuing struggles of the u.s. economy. wayne johnson sent this, the individual sender is the driver of the economy. you can tell all of the banks wall street and corporations full of cash but unless the consumer has disposable income there will be no improvements in the economy. >> keep your comments coming. you can find us at fox news sunday.com. that's it for today. have a great week. see you next fox news sunday.

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